Anyone ever want to come back?

[Riaan&Natelie]

Hi

My wife and I are planning to move to Australia (I am an SA attorney and will have to go over on a student visa to obtain the necessary bridging qualifications and apply for PR from there -effectively using our lifesavings to start over in Oz). As I read some of the posts on this forum, one question keeps on milling about in my head: are there many South Africans in Australia that want to come back, but can't (either because their financial and personal situation does not allow this or it would be too much of a hassle to move back and start from scratch again)? Could personal pride also be a factor in refusing to come back?

Don't get me wrong - things are becoming progressively worse in SA and we are looking forward to starting a new life in Oz (especially with the view of giving our 2 kids a brighter future). It's just that I am not sure whether I will be able to start from scracth again if things do not work out for us in Oz. Has there been a poll or are there any statistics on how many South Africans have come back to SA?

This must have been discussed previously, so any help referring me to previous posts would also be appreciated.

Any info would really be appreciated and will go along way in helping us make that final "We're Going!" decision (and I am aware that ultimately it is a decision that we will have to make for ourselves and live with the consequences).

Thank you

[UnsureGC]

Daily - I consider moving back daily!

I have been here 3.5 years now and yes have become more settled, gotten over my 2 year depression and finally gotten used to the Aussie way of life but that does not mean I have turned my back on SA. My husband and I have not made our decision yet - he has his passport and I get mine towards the end of this year... we are currently building a house which we plan to sell soon after we complete it (to make some cash) and will then decide whether we give SA another go. We have worked in the UK, SA, USA and here so used to moving around and trying new things.

I think that if I had moved here and completely closed the door on SA I would have felt very trapped and even more unhappy, it was good to know I always had the option to move back if I just couldn't hack it. Luckily I have had the support of my husband to stick it out for this long... the most important thing for us was to at least get the passport!

Good luck with everything - nothing is the same for anyone and only you can make the right decision for you!

Cheers

[Guest Bronwyn]

Hey Wendy

If you go back, do so temporarily. I think you will find that so much has changed in 8 years it's scary. I know people have been asked not to make negative comments, but if you are unhappy in Aus rather try another country. Unfortunately SA is in the middle of huge upheaval and is no longer safe at all. I'm sorry to say it, I am upset about it too, but you won't be able to live there after being away for so long , it's not going to work and it's probably going to be a big financial and emotional setback.

My brother has lived in the UK for 7 years now, and he often makes comments about how he is sorry he emmigrated away from SA, but he doesn't realise what is going on there now, he would never cope, after living in a First world country for so long.

Good luck

Bronwyn

Edited March 7, 2008 by Bronwyn

[bluebonnet]

Hey Wendy

If you go back, do so temporarily. I think you will find that so much has changed in 8 years it's scary. I know people have been asked not to make negative comments, but if you are unhappy in Aus rather try another country. Unfortunately SA is in the middle of huge upheaval and is no longer safe at all. I'm sorry to say it, I am upset about it too, but you won't be able to live there after being away for so long , it's not going to work and it's probably going to be a big financial and emotional setback.

My brother has lived in the UK for 7 years now, and he often makes comments about how he is sorry he emmigrated away from SA, but he doesn't realise what is going on there now, he would never cope, after living in a First world country for so long.

Good luck

Bronwyn

Wish I could forward your message to my family. They just won't listen. They know the facts, but they still believe it will get better. I just cannot believe it. I am talking about family members with young children. One family member is actually in the process of moving back to SA, after living in the UK for a couple of years. How will it get better? What will get better? I have also realized that some of my family members refuse to read the news and "block" themselves out from all the negative, and that to me is the worst you can do right now. Keep well informed about everything in SA, every small little detail, and then, only then will you see the real picture. Sorry, another negative post.

[LeeInOz]

Hi

Don't get me wrong - things are becoming progressively worse in SA and we are looking forward to starting a new life in Oz (especially with the view of giving our 2 kids a brighter future). It's just that I am not sure whether I will be able to start from scracth again if things do not work out for us in Oz. Has there been a poll or are there any statistics on how many South Africans have come back to SA?

Thank you

As to the facts. From the immigration website document below

About 6000 South Africans a year arrive or become PR. (temporary dont count) Page 16

On page 30 it says 400 to 500 leave a year or between 0.6 or 0.8%. Some of these dont go back, but go to UK and USA etc

I know a guy who left RSA went to UK, then Dubai then Australia with his family and are now in the USA. All this in the last 12 years. He is just under 50

Dont dwell on the past, look to the future and go forward. Life is differnt here, get used to rules and regulations that make it first world, or live in a hellhole.

I am amazed how many keep talking about when we were in South Africa and tak of 10 years or more ago, then go back and return and cant believe how bad it is. The brain tries to hide all the bad and keep the good so they live in memories and not reality.

I get asked if I will retun for a holiday. Why, I would rather see other wonderful places rather than see the coutry of my birth reducing to a pile of rubble, crime and disease.

[LeeInOz]

As to the facts. From the immigration website document below

Oops, the atachment got lost. It is a document from the immigration website. I will try again

Immigation_update.pdf

[calibrated]

i have been here just over 1 year. and i would say at least 5 times a day, i wish i was back in Cape Town.

i know Aus is safer, higher earnings, quality of life, etc. i know SA's crime, electricity, etc. im well aware of everything that is going on in both countries. i am earning 4 times what i was earning back home. but somehow i was happier, and less stressed in SA.

and damn, can these people catch a wake up? everything is so clinical, thats how its done, so there's no deviation. i miss the South African cultures, and maybe being from Cape Town i was spoilt with such colourful diversity. Its obvious that aussie culture is very different to SA culture.. but then when you think about it, is it really just different? or is it more the seemingly complete lack of a culture here?

for example, i went to suncorp to watch the Stormers vs the Reds on saturday passed. i have never in my life experienced a sporting venue, with such a distinct lack of atmosphere. i've seen more excitement at a tennis match. when the reds scored, they would shout. but apart from that, they just sat there. quiet.... in a stadium at 1/4 capacity... that would never happen at Newlands. ever.

i am planning to go back in September, for my birthday this year. that will be my final decision. i have a girl back home, that i have been with going onto 4 years. and if she decides she wants to come here, i will stick it out here, but if she wants to stay in SA, well then SA it will be for me. or timbuktu, or wherever she wants to be. i have an aussie passport, so the options will always be there.

Australia makes it so damn hard for South African's that genuinely want to come here, to get in. but lately i am noticing a lot of "refugees" from the african states around brisbane. not being racist or anything, but if we have to prove how much we can offer to australia for letting us in, how do they get in??

i may have gone a bit off topic there, but its been one of those weeks, for me, that as a south african, all you want, is to go home.

[Guest natalie3]

Im not in Oz yet..but i can promise in no uncertain terms that i will NEVER come back to SA..

seriously,....i would rather smooch a toilet seat !...a public one!!!

[CapeTownToolNut]

and damn, can these people catch a wake up? everything is so clinical, thats how its done, so there's no deviation. i miss the South African cultures, and maybe being from Cape Town i was spoilt with such colourful diversity. Its obvious that aussie culture is very different to SA culture.. but then when you think about it, is it really just different? or is it more the seemingly complete lack of a culture here?

for example, i went to suncorp to watch the Stormers vs the Reds on saturday passed. i have never in my life experienced a sporting venue, with such a distinct lack of atmosphere. i've seen more excitement at a tennis match. when the reds scored, they would shout. but apart from that, they just sat there. quiet.... in a stadium at 1/4 capacity... that would never happen at Newlands.

Maybe they learnt their undemonstrativeness from the British.........the land of lucky or the land of the bland ? Mmm?

[Jill]

Hi Calibrated,

I hear what you are saying, we still battle, I think just to feel that you belong. You feel the odd one out, maybe this town I live in is just too small and not representative of Australia, but there is no vibe here at all. Everyone goes about their business, shops, drinks coffee, very empty lifestyle.

We also know there is no future for us in SA, but it doesn't stop the pining, we are here for our Childrens future, children being 20 and 16. If not for them, I would have put blinkers on and stayed in SA.

To Natalie3,

With all due respect to your opinion, wait till you get to Oz and the longing for SA hits you, then you can understand how the people on this side feel.

bye for now Jill

[Tobold]

Hey calibrated,

Thanks for posting that. It created a rather vivid picture of your feelings and the background gave it a real context. I just got my skills assessment back positive last week and the elation gave way very quickly to melancholy. Going for the permanent residence visa has to be one of the most trying experiences of my life, and I'm only 2 months in! I wonder if the stress is worth it, especially considering that we could get it, move there, and end up feeling like you describe on a daily basis. That is a sobering thought.

There is a very positive attitude towards the move here, as there should be, but it seems the really positive people are often those who have yet to land in Australia. That's fine. A person should hope for the best and being positive is conducive to good results, but it does temper my enthusiam somewhat. I have been there on business and loved it. However, living there day to day with my family will no doubt be a different prospect. I was convinced it would be heaven for us when I returned from Melbourne in June 2006, but this past while I have had cause to wonder. My wife has never been there. What if she simply doesn't feel the way I do when we get there? Thankfully, we're doing a LSD trip if and when the visa is granted, so we can come home and just forget about it, although it will be one of more expensive holiday visas I've ever obtained.

There was a certain quality in your post that lent it credibility. I thank you for the insight and hope that you end up very happy, whatever you decide to do. Having the Aussie passport should allow you to make the decision with more freedom, which is nice. I heard about African "refugees" over there from an Aussie mate of mine. He said there was something in the news about some of them getting involved in gangs and causing some trouble. He works in Melbourne (lives in Lara, near Geelong), but I don't know where the problems he's talking about were happening.

Take care,

Mark

[SueB]

I think these posts highlight something that we forget/don't realise: Australian culture is different to SA culture. Some things are similar - language, personal space,queueing. But lots of things are different.

I lived in a small town in Mamparalanga for the last 5 years and I felt more isolated and more of a foreigner there, than here. Here I expect to feel like an outsider, but not in the country I grew up in. For me, Australians are friendly, so what I believe is that if you make the effort to meet people you will make friends, but it does take a couple of years.

I think immigrating is a bit like having kids - until you've done it, you dont know what it's like But also, everyone's experience is unique, so thanks for sharing!!

[Leon]

Calibrated, what did you expect mate, it was the Reds that played: thumbdown: You should have been at Subiaco oval on Sunday, a sea of blue around the park and the Force almost made history.

People singing, waiving flags, and the best part families all coming to watch the game. I can not comment on Newlands as I never been their but I can comment on Loftus where it was really difficult to take your family on the open pavilions due to drunkenness and just blatantly rudeness and foul language being used. You will not find it here, they are geared up to cater for families which is really great.

As far as the rest of your comments, my experience in the last 3 years here in Perth is the completely the opposite. I think the Ozzies have a great culture especially the “mateship†of which South Africans don’t have a clue and the Ozzies accept you in their country (remember it is their country to start with), al they ask is for you to live according to the laws of their country. They encourage you to keep your identity and with more than 150 different cultures represented here in Perth it makes it a true cosmopolitan of cultures.

In short I will never go back to be honest I think you are crazy to go back but as with everything else it is your choice, your life, your future. Just wandering if you are going to keep your Ozzie passport when you are going back and if you do why? seeing we have no culture here?

[Ajay]

Hi Tobold,

With respect, you are completely off base when you say that the only positive people are those that haven't yet landed. You are lending more weight to the posts of those that are unsure and under-valuing the ones that are positive because that is what you want to read and because their doubts resonate with your own. Nothing wrong with it - just human nature to agree with those people that are sharing our emotions - but you do need to try and factor in some objectivity in such a massive upheaval. Personally, from reading your post, I'm not sure that you are ready for this. It's a hard move when you're in the very best frame of mind and I imagine it will be pretty damn close to impossible if there is a part of you that believes that you're making a mistake.

Please, please, please spend some time really examining your feelings before you go too much further and make a costly and damaging mistake.

Cheers

Ajay

[Enrica]

and damn, can these people catch a wake up? everything is so clinical, thats how its done, so there's no deviation. i miss the South African cultures, and maybe being from Cape Town i was spoilt with such colourful diversity. Its obvious that aussie culture is very different to SA culture.. but then when you think about it, is it really just different? or is it more the seemingly complete lack of a culture here?

Thats why things work here, because there is a certain way of doing things..............and really if you are so unhappy about being here go back. You dont have kids or anything keeping your here, not ties .

Why do you need the Australian Passport ?..........................You need to catch a wake up mate.

Immigration is the hardest thing you will ever do, if you have any doubts dont even think of coming.

Dont let anyone tell you otherwise it is HARD HARD HARD.

You must be prepard to give yourself 1000 days, if you throw the towel in before that, you have not given yourself a chance.

Good Luck to all those still needing to make the decision.

[Guest natalie3]

Hi Calibrated,

I hear what you are saying, we still battle, I think just to feel that you belong. You feel the odd one out, maybe this town I live in is just too small and not representative of Australia, but there is no vibe here at all. Everyone goes about their business, shops, drinks coffee, very empty lifestyle.

We also know there is no future for us in SA, but it doesn't stop the pining, we are here for our Childrens future, children being 20 and 16. If not for them, I would have put blinkers on and stayed in SA.

To Natalie3,

With all due respect to your opinion, wait till you get to Oz and the longing for SA hits you, then you can understand how the people on this side feel.

bye for now Jill

Yes...im well aware that its easy for me to say that when im still in SA...however..i wont miss SA because i dont feel welcome here..SA in no longer my country..i have been made to feel extremely unwelcome in South Africa for most of my life ..so ja...ons praat weer

I understand u are a tad homesick..i acknowledge and admit it can happen to the most "positive" of us..all im saying is i wont go back to SA..im definitely not being unrealistic and saying Oz will be my paradise..what i mean is..if i dont like oz,,,i will go elsewhere,,,but i wont come back to SA..

[dorry]

Hi Riaan and Natalie

My husband and I, and our three boys migrated to Sydney in 2000. We lived there for 4 years and then made the emotional desicion to go back to SA. WE lived in SA for 3 years. Chaos. After only 2 months back "home" our house was robbed. no insurance. We bought a small business and it went bankrupt last year November. I had to leave without my hubby and kids to make money in oz so that they could also return. I am now situated in Brisbane Queensland. My eyes well and truly went open now. South Africa is currently a nightmare and there is no denying that. I am happy for families who return and make it. We were not so lucky, we suffered for three years. I see oz in a different light now, and realise this is home. This is the country that has looked after me and my family. Sure we will always be homesick, but sometimes emotional such be seperated from reality and our futures. They say: never say never, but I would NEVER go back to SA to live, because I dont want to die at the age of 60 because of stress or younger because of violence. I wish all the best to families who return, and may God be with them. I pray for my friends and family every day. I also thank the Lord for the wonderful oppertunity to be able to live in a wonderul coutry like Australia. I hope you will be happy in oz. Best of Luck and God Bless

Analise Prinsloo

Hi Analise

Ek weet hoe julle gevoel het. Ons is in Kanada al vir 5 jaar. Ons het laas jaar terug gegaan SA toe en was vir 2 maande daar en het toe terug gekom Kanada toe. Ons is baie spyt want ons was en is nie gelukkig hier nie. Ons is nou besig met ons immigrasie Australia toe en beplan om Brisbane toe te gaan. Ek voel glad nie dat ons hier in pas nie en haat dit om 7 maande van die jaar in die huis te sit.

Ons GLO en bid dat ons Australia toe sal kan gaan en dat ons baie gelukkig daar sal wees. Om net aan die sonskyn te dink sit 'n glimlag op my gesig. Dit is 'n groot besluit om jou land te verlaat en ek raai mense af om Kanada toe te kom. Ons Suid-Afrikaanse bloed pas nie so lekker aan in sulke weers omstandighede nie.

Suid-Afrika sal altyd my land bly maar ons het besef dat dinge baie verander het en vir ons kinders se onthalwe is dit beter in Austalia. Daar is nie meer 'n toekoms vir hulle in SA nie. Dis sad maar waar.

Ek hoop ek ontmoet julle almal as ons eendag oor kom. Dis goed om saam te staan in 'n vreemde land.

Sterkte aan almal

Groete

Martinella

[elizes]

Sjoe Martinella

Dis 'n groot besluit. Het julle permanent terug probeer kom ZA of was dit vir vakansie? Ek kan dink dat die weer in Kanada iets ysliks moet wees...no pun intended.... Ek sal self sukkel en ek is mal oor Europa. Maar die feit dat julle nou na Oz kyk se vir my dat julle makliker gaan aanpas, want julle weet ZA is nie meer worth it nie.

Is ek reg?

[Tobold]

Hi Tobold,

With respect, you are completely off base when you say that the only positive people are those that haven't yet landed. You are lending more weight to the posts of those that are unsure and under-valuing the ones that are positive because that is what you want to read and because their doubts resonate with your own. Nothing wrong with it - just human nature to agree with those people that are sharing our emotions - but you do need to try and factor in some objectivity in such a massive upheaval. Personally, from reading your post, I'm not sure that you are ready for this. It's a hard move when you're in the very best frame of mind and I imagine it will be pretty damn close to impossible if there is a part of you that believes that you're making a mistake.

Please, please, please spend some time really examining your feelings before you go too much further and make a costly and damaging mistake.

Cheers

Ajay

With similar respect (such that it was), I would ask you to factor in some objectivity too, by quoting me correctly.

There is a different between what I said:

There is a very positive attitude towards the move here, as there should be, but it seems the really positive people are often those who have yet to land in Australia.

and what you quoted me as saying:

With respect, you are completely off base when you say that the only positive people are those that haven't yet landed.

The emphasis is mine, to help you see the difference, but you should know that "often" is not nearly the same as "only". Often does not even imply majority, merely a significant portion. If I say there are often Asians at my library, that does not imply that the majority are Asian, and certainly not that only Asians frequent it!

Of course those words are "off base", but they're not mine, they're yours. This is called a "straw man" argument. It is one in which you describe a position that superficially resembles someone's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. I'm sorry if this is a bit direct for you, but I have an issue with people putting words in my mouth and then chastising me for them.

It is readily apparent that those who have spent some time living abroad are generally more realistic and less overtly enthusiastic. It is "just human nature", to borrow your expression, to be enthusiastic about such things. Students are generally very enthusiastic about getting their first degree, while those who have one, or several, are less so. The analogy holds for many aspects of human life and I don't think that migration is that different. You can find countless people to attest to the fact that, after around 6 months in a new country, the elation fades and the reality sets in. Most people ride a wave before, during and for a number of months after moving.

Are we not to express our views and feelings here? I found that to be one of the strengths of these forums, the fact that our fears, hopes and thoughts can be expressed, warts and all. Can my comments affect anyone else any more than their comments can affect me? If you start policing what people think, who is to decide what gets to pass?

Edited March 10, 2008 by Tobold

[brisbound]

OK Tobold!

Jislaaik....I don't remember you in the debating society at RBPS

Mental note to self...have political discussion with you only after we have both had a few brandies...could be a long and interesting verbal joust

You make a good point though....you were misquoted and feeling unsure is just the phase that you are in at the moment. I am in the same space at the moment. My head tells me go, my heart says "Dammit this is my country, why should I leave!"

If people can't voice their concerns and fears on a forum like this then where can we?

Now back in your corner, no biting or kicking and keep those hands where I can see them

Regards

Brisbound

[dorry]

Sjoe Martinella

Dis 'n groot besluit. Het julle permanent terug probeer kom ZA of was dit vir vakansie? Ek kan dink dat die weer in Kanada iets ysliks moet wees...no pun intended.... Ek sal self sukkel en ek is mal oor Europa. Maar die feit dat julle nou na Oz kyk se vir my dat julle makliker gaan aanpas, want julle weet ZA is nie meer worth it nie.

Is ek reg?

Ja jy is reg. Dit is moeilik genoeg om weg te wees van jou geliefdes en om dan nog met vreemde weer wat baie depressing is ook te deal is nie maklik nie.

Ons het probeer terug trek maar toe is daar 'n delay met die meubels en my seun van 20 wat in Kanada agter gebly het was in 'n kar ongeluk en my dogter wou niks weet van SA nie en dit het ons forseer om terug te kom. As ek nou terug kyk moes ons daar gebly het en die beste van 'n saak gemaak het want ons het BAIE geld verloor, maar ek glo die HERE het 'n ander plan met ons.

Friende van ons in OZ sit nou al jare aan ons om oor te kom maar die kinders wou nie maar hulle is nou ook moeg vir die koue en wil OZ toe.

Ons werk deur 'n vrou in SA wat my suster se beste vriendin is maar sy kom nie terug om te se wat gaan vir wat nie so ons oorweeg om dinge maar self te doen.

Kan nie wag om Australia toe te gaan nie. Kom die Suid-Afrikaners daar gereeld by mekaar en hoe is hulle teenoor mekaar daar?? Het julle SA dokters ens.

[elizes]

Martinella

Ja, die SA mense kom lyk my so een keer 'n kwartaal bymekaar vir BBQ en die vrouens het coffeeclubs gereeld. Maar jy sal vind dat jy ook maar nuwe pelle moet maak onder die Ozzies, as jy regtig gesettle wil voel. Dis maar swaar vir my om nog "in" te voel, want ons is maar kort hier. Ek dink jy sal dit baie meer geniet hier as in Kanada.

Ons het SA dokters hierso, alhoewel ek nou nog nie by een van hulle was nie. Maar ja, hulle is eintlik orals.

Laat weet ons van julle planne, ons sal help waar ons kan.

groete

[dorry]

Martinella

Ja, die SA mense kom lyk my so een keer 'n kwartaal bymekaar vir BBQ en die vrouens het coffeeclubs gereeld. Maar jy sal vind dat jy ook maar nuwe pelle moet maak onder die Ozzies, as jy regtig gesettle wil voel. Dis maar swaar vir my om nog "in" te voel, want ons is maar kort hier. Ek dink jy sal dit baie meer geniet hier as in Kanada.

Ons het SA dokters hierso, alhoewel ek nou nog nie by een van hulle was nie. Maar ja, hulle is eintlik orals.

Laat weet ons van julle planne, ons sal help waar ons kan.

groete

Ons is al 5 jaar in Kanada en ek voel altyd uit maak nie saak waar ek gaan nie. Ek sal graag 'n paar Afrikaanse vriende wil he om darem oor die ou dae te kan praat en iemand wat jou kultuur verstaan. Ek het nie 'n probleem om met die Ozzies vriende te word nie. Hoor hulle is nogal "out going" en vriendelik.

Hier in Kanada is jy gelukkig as jy 'n dokter kry. Hulle het 'n groot tekort. Hoe is dit in Brisbane en die omgewing. Ek sal graag meer wil weet van die plek. Hoe is huis pryse daar.

Ons bel more vir my man se Olifantsfontein kontrak en vir sy army uitklaar papiere. Ek het nie 'n idee hoe lank dit ons gaan vat om oor te gaan nie maar ons hoop dit is gou

Groete

Martinella

[Ajay]

With similar respect (such that it was), I would ask you to factor in some objectivity too, by quoting me correctly.

There is a different between what I said:

There is a very positive attitude towards the move here, as there should be, but it seems the really positive people are often those who have yet to land in Australia.

and what you quoted me as saying:

With respect, you are completely off base when you say that the only positive people are those that haven't yet landed.

The emphasis is mine, to help you see the difference, but you should know that "often" is not nearly the same as "only". Often does not even imply majority, merely a significant portion. If I say there are often Asians at my library, that does not imply that the majority are Asian, and certainly not that only Asians frequent it!

Of course those words are "off base", but they're not mine, they're yours. This is called a "straw man" argument. It is one in which you describe a position that superficially resembles someone's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. I'm sorry if this is a bit direct for you, but I have an issue with people putting words in my mouth and then chastising me for them.

It is readily apparent that those who have spent some time living abroad are generally more realistic and less overtly enthusiastic. It is "just human nature", to borrow your expression, to be enthusiastic about such things. Students are generally very enthusiastic about getting their first degree, while those who have one, or several, are less so. The analogy holds for many aspects of human life and I don't think that migration is that different. You can find countless people to attest to the fact that, after around 6 months in a new country, the elation fades and the reality sets in. Most people ride a wave before, during and for a number of months after moving.

Are we not to express our views and feelings here? I found that to be one of the strengths of these forums, the fact that our fears, hopes and thoughts can be expressed, warts and all. Can my comments affect anyone else any more than their comments can affect me? If you start policing what people think, who is to decide what gets to pass?

You're right - I misquoted you and I apologise for that. I could do without the lengthy English lecture though - we can all see that you are indeed a clever, clever man. My point remains that you are lending more weight to the views expressed by people who share your doubts than you are to the views of those who have no reservations, whether in the lead up to the move, or after living here for an extended time.

I was not, in any way, questioning your right to a view or an opinion, as I'm sure you'll realise when you read my post. I was merely offering my own.

Now, I think I'll get back to trying to assist people with the process of migration, instead of going to the effort of pointing out that your use of the word objectivity above (the bold and underline are mine, to help you see the difference ) is grammatically incorrect.

Cheers

Ajay

[calibrated]

Calibrated, what did you expect mate, it was the Reds that played: thumbdown: You should have been at Subiaco oval on Sunday, a sea of blue around the park and the Force almost made history.

People singing, waiving flags, and the best part families all coming to watch the game. I can not comment on Newlands as I never been their but I can comment on Loftus where it was really difficult to take your family on the open pavilions due to drunkenness and just blatantly rudeness and foul language being used. You will not find it here, they are geared up to cater for families which is really great.

As far as the rest of your comments, my experience in the last 3 years here in Perth is the completely the opposite. I think the Ozzies have a great culture especially the “mateship†of which South Africans don’t have a clue and the Ozzies accept you in their country (remember it is their country to start with), al they ask is for you to live according to the laws of their country. They encourage you to keep your identity and with more than 150 different cultures represented here in Perth it makes it a true cosmopolitan of cultures.

In short I will never go back to be honest I think you are crazy to go back but as with everything else it is your choice, your life, your future. Just wandering if you are going to keep your Ozzie passport when you are going back and if you do why? seeing we have no culture here?

I understand what you are saying. i've been to Perth twice, and i prefer it over brisbane. its got much more of a buzz.

[calibrated]

Thats why things work here, because there is a certain way of doing things..............and really if you are so unhappy about being here go back. You dont have kids or anything keeping your here, not ties .

Why do you need the Australian Passport ?..........................You need to catch a wake up mate.

Immigration is the hardest thing you will ever do, if you have any doubts dont even think of coming.

Dont let anyone tell you otherwise it is HARD HARD HARD.

You must be prepard to give yourself 1000 days, if you throw the towel in before that, you have not given yourself a chance.

Good Luck to all those still needing to make the decision.

i am quite well aware of what is going on. here, and in SA, i dont nee to catch a wake up. again, you are in Perth, which has a VERY different lifestyle to Brisbane.

i dont NEED my australian passport, but im lucky enough to have one, gives me the freedom of being pretty much anywhere i want to be.

Edited March 12, 2008 by calibrated